Forum:Starting a new fanon wiki

I recently came up with the idea of having another fanon wiki under NIWA. After all, it seems strange that Pikmin Fanon is one of the only independent fanon wikis out there. Surely a bigger name in Nintendo such as Mario or Zelda would garner a big audience for fanon. I know several fanon wikis exist under FANDOM, formerly known as Wikia, but I have trepidations about wiki farms. I'd rather help start an independent Nintendo fanon wiki of a specific franchise. However, the options seem limited, as many of the independent wiki hosts only take existing wikis under their wing. I had the idea of starting it on Grifkuba, but I heard that there was some server trouble, so it might be a while before it could be up and running. This is my preferred option, as going independent would better serve the purposes of creating a quality community in my opinion.

Another option is to use a wiki farm that isn't FANDOM, such as Miraheze, then going independent when the userbase is large enough. I've heard that they aren't as egregious as FANDOM, however there are pitfalls to using a wiki farm. I have heard good things about Miraheze, and after all, ARMS Wiki was originally on there - and they went independent with no pushback. At the end of the day Pikmin Fanon comes first, but I want to broaden the horizons of fanon wikis, as I believe there is untapped potential there. What does everybody think? Would you contribute to a fanon wiki of a different Nintendo franchise? If so, I hope I can have your support. 13:55, 18 July 2021 (UTC)


 * So, after some talk on NIWA's discord channel, the idea of having Pikmin Fanon expand to cover all of Nintendo was brought up. I personally love the idea, as it could create a very expansive wiki, with a wide variety of projects and contributors, We could even have the skin and logo change to match that of the franchise that the current viewed article is covering. I really think this could breathe some fresh air into the site. But first I need feedback and consent of those of you who are still here. There are two options:


 * 1) Expand Pikmin Fanon to a Nintendo Fanon.
 * 2) Create a Nintendo Fanon wiki, then merge it with Pikmin Fanon. Note that this method requires a host to pick up a brand-new wiki.


 * Option one sounds more feasible in my opinion. So anyways, what do you guys think about expanding Pikmin Fanon into a Nintendo Fanon, but allowing each franchise to have their own section of the site? This would preserve Pikmin Fanon and also bring in more opportunities. Let me know what you think! 17:40, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

As neat as having a Nintendo fanon sounds, I think I'd much rather just have the Pikmin Fanon stay as the Pikmin Fanon. The wiki would be too large otherwise because it would contain sections for all sorts of popular Nintendo franchises such as Super Mario, The Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Kirby, of course Pikmin, and much more. Not to mention the naming of articles and files and such.


 * Respectfully, I disagree, The wiki would be large, yes, but is that a bad thing? Articles could have a template showing what franchise the content is based on. We could come up with ways to partition the wiki so that articles and files would have their own separate spaces. I really think in order for Pikmin Fanon to stay alive, it needs to grow. This would be a good way to expand the userbase while keeping Pikmin Fanon intact. Otherwise, you would need to make several separate Nintendo franchise fanon wikis. Having it all under one umbrella could keep things simple. We even could figure out a way to have completely separate wikis in one hub. I implore you to reconsider this, as I fear for Pikmin Fanon's future without some miracle happening to bring users here. Do you really think Grifkuba will want to host a wiki that has two active users forever? I can always just create a separate fanon wiki for a specific topic, but I really think that this could help save the wiki. 18:32, 18 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Well, I guess now that you put it that way, I'm willing to give it a shot. The idea of having everything contained in a single domain yet have their own separate places really appeals to me.


 * Excellent. I will be honest, however, I have no idea how to implement this! I'll have to do some research and figure it out. A big thing to consider if you have separate wikis: user accounts would be out of sync. So you could have a User:Roflcopter222 on Mario Fanon, and then some other person takes the username on Zelda Fanon. We'd have to come up with a way to sync the user accounts, which may provide some sort of technical problem. I will look into it. We should also see what Cyan Piklord thinks as the only other active contributor. 18:43, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

Disclaimer: I am not a member of the PF community, but I have been observing it, both from a Pikmin fan and NIWA-interest's perspective.

Normally I'd be "the community must voice their opinion" person, but to be honest there isn't much of a community. The MediaWiki signup screen told me there are 3 (3!) active contributors. As long as they all agree, that's practically full community consensus.

My personal opinion is that well, ⸘Por que no los dos‽ There should be an independent Nintendo Fanon wiki and an independent Pikmin Fanon wiki. But, alas, there is a finite amount of server space in this world, so I support two, but if there is no host available to take the wiki, I suppose one would do.

My only concern is that past contributors may not like this fully, but who knows. Most of them will never edit this wiki again, so they shouldn't affect the community's choice too much.

As for Fantendo, it's kind of inactive, and mostly about original content these days (https://fantendo.fandom.com/wiki/Pyroverse:_Breach/Story this is a good example)

(I had an edit conflict) I also agree with Cheepy-Cheepy in some ways, but honestly there may be a time in the not-so-distant future where only one person shall edit, and it doesn't make sense to have an entire wiki for just one person's work, so perhaps expanding the wiki's scope will give the wiki the renaissance it oh-so-desperately deserves.


 * Conserving server space is an excellent point. It's part of why I've been reducing the sizes of giant files.

Potential Nintendo Fanon network
So after much consideration I think the best idea moving forward is to keep Pikmin Fanon wiki as is, but to create a new network for Pikmin Fanon to be the original member of. Pikmin Fanon's domain would change to pikmin.nintendofanon.com. This nintendofanon.com could be an umbrella domain that would host any Nintendo franchise's potential fanon wiki. For example, there could be a mario.nintendofanon.com, or a mother.nintendofanon.com. This way, Pikmin Fanon remains a distinct entity, but we can increase the scope of Fanon on NIWA, as well as potentially bring more traffic to Pikmin Fanon. I have also been told that Bulbapedia has user accounts sync'd across all of Bulbagarden, which is an example of how we could sync user accounts across this Nintendo Fanon network. Grifkuba, our gracious host, would not object to this change in content. (I have spoken to someone who said it would be fine) This could be the start of a great new network, and I hope you all are in agreement that while change is necessary for the wiki to remain afloat, we don't have to sacrifice our individuality while doing so. 00:24, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

Let's do it. As a side note, I'm excited to see what MOTHER-based content people would make, as I'm a big fan of the series. .

I agree. Buuuut... we should put some kind of thing up on the main page in that one "Welcome to Pikmin Fanon" bubble stating that this was the original wiki that then expanded into the NFN (Nintendo Fanon Network). We're obviously going to need to "partition" everything off, but it could work, and the NFN could become the main hub for fan made Nintendo creations! Of course, we have to have a Smash Fanon, because I'm certain people would love to make up movesets for all their favorite characters, and besides: this is the NFN! Smash is that one crossover franchise! I say we do this! All in favor, say AYE! Monday, July 19th 2021, 4:39 AM (UTC), 12:40 AM (EDT)

When discussing this Nintendo Fanon Network with some of the people at NIWA, they mentioned that it would essentially be a wiki farm if we did it that way. I don't know if they will accept us changing into that, as the whole goal of NIWA is to have independence from wiki farms. I'll try to assure that we will be harmless and made by the fans, for the fans, but I'm not sure how they will take it. We may need to consider one of the other options as a fallback. 06:11, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

True, true. We would essentially just become one big Mega-Wiki. However, I do think they will probably just see us as some Nintendo fans trying to unite the Fanon community under one flag. I made a few suggestions on #pikmin-fanon, and told Espyo about our idea. I've also contacted the Moderators of r/Pikmin, and am working on my message to r/Zelda. As far as can be told, all is going to plan on my end of things at the moment. I hope you're having success on your side. Now, we should probably divide the work of contacting all those subreddits and such among us. I've already contacted r/Pikmin and am going to contact r/Zelda, as you already know. Remember, if this is going to happen we need to be kind, considerate, formal, and most of all, appear as nothing more than a bunch of Pikmin fans trying to make a creative, mod and idea sharing, equal and fair environment where we can all come together and document our ideas. If you feel the need to, mention that we don't really have much of a community, but try to hide our ulterior motive and main motivation, to completely revive the Pikmin Fanon community and bring us to a new golden age. I have a URL that can bring you to an article on how to write a letter. While it's not exactly the same, it's still applicable. The URL is https://www.scribendi.com/academy/articles/how_to_write_a_formal_letter.en.html. Good luck. Monday, July 19th 2021, 6:59 AM (UTC), 2:59 AM (EDT)


 * I know how to write a letter, haha. I was an English major for a time. Anyways, I'll do the diplomacy, as a bureaucrat on Pikmin Fanon - I don't want you to overwhelm yourself, and also you don't know all the details yet. I am glad you are willing to help, but perhaps ask me first before sending messages to others. I'll screen them to be sure you have got the essence of what we are doing right, and also to be sure we are diplomatic as possible. Thanks. EDIT: Also, I don't think this is an ulterior motive that we want Pikmin Fanon to thrive again. We need to be open about our intentions, but also recognize that Pikmin Fanon would be a small part of a larger community.  15:15, 19 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Argh, I forgot to update everyone on the last point. I spoke with moderators of NIWA, and they seemed to be okay with us becoming a wiki-farm, as long as the scope stayed fanon, and it was all under one domain. This is good news- as we can begin to move forward with plans. We need to draft up a plan with the help of our wiki representative, Fumple. However, these new potential subwikis would not immediately become a part of NIWA, and would need to apply for membership. Additionally, one of the moderators said that they were planning on changing the scope of the terms of NIWA membership, and are considering having fanon be excluded. He did say that he thought it was likely that Pikmin Fanon would be grandfathered in, so we would be safe, hopefully, but again - its not the end of the world if we or these new subwikis are excluded from NIWA. We can stand on our own, and be proud of our creative force! The planning stages have begun, and I think it's best to keep this close to the belt for now. Once we have a better idea of what we are going to do, then we can begin the diaspora of scouting interested parties. After all, we can't say "we are going to have this Metroid fanon, it's gonna be awesome" and then the first fanon, Mario fanon falls flat, so there'd be no Metroid fanon. All I am saying is that we need to have a game plan before spreading the word. Let's do this guys, I have high hopes for this new network, I believe this is the start of something wonderful!

Got it, sorry, may or may not have already written to r/Pikmin and r/Zelda's Mods.

Plan
Okay, so I have decided it is best to plan out what we intend to do, and in doing so I asked for feedback from various people over at NIWA. Espyo provided a massive list of questions, which really helps us in nailing down the details. I have decided to answer these questions as well. I would like your feedback on these questions as well.


 * 1) what other fanbases would want a place to dump ideas?
 * 2) I would assume every Nintendo franchise would want a place to dump ideas. I mean, besides fan fiction websites and Fantendo, where on the internet can you organize your fanon ideas? On that note, I do think some on fantendo might like the idea of a fresh start, as from what I can tell Fantendo has a very specific culture and it isn't always the most welcoming one.
 * 3) how much content is every fanbase expected to create?
 * 4) As much as they want. We would create a main Nintendo Wiki, organized based on series, and if a specific series got enough traction, then another wiki could be made. Of course Pikmin Fanon will remain its own wiki, and Pikmin ideas would go there. Alternative ideas can be utilized too, but this seems to work.
 * 5) if everyone goes to the same wiki, should we separate it based on franchise?
 * 6) Answered above
 * 7) if so, how? namespaces?
 * 8) Namespaces on the Nintendo Fanon Wiki, then separated by wiki later.
 * 9) should original IPs be allowed?
 * 10) Unsure
 * 11) would the bigger franchises be allowed multiple namespaces for the type of content they can have?
 * 12) Yes
 * 13) what are the policies for organizing content? I mean, recall that fanon to this day struggles to organize its content, since there's a lot of duplication. for instance: Green Pikmin in one fangame are different from Green Pikmin in another game; should there be one Green Pikmin article with info about all games? now extrapolate this to other franchises
 * 14) Disambiguation pages, then pages for each game's version
 * 15) if we're doing one wiki per franchise, how will we figure out which wikis should exist, and which shouldn't out of fear of lack of content?
 * 16) We need to create a criteria for how big a franchise's namespace is before it can be made into a wiki.
 * 17) who's going to pay for all this hosting, regardless of which method we pick?
 * 18) Fumple said Grifkuba will.
 * 19) does Fantendo want in or not? they need to decide first
 * 20) Regardless if they do or not, I think we should be a competitor.
 * 21) if we join with Fantendo, will it be a new wiki in the family, or part of the Nintendo Fanon wiki?
 * 22) Moot
 * 23) if part of the Nintendo Fanon wiki, will each of their original franchises be treated like an existing franchise, or will there be one "master" place for all OC franchises?
 * 24) Unsure, will need feedback from others here on that
 * 25) how granular will people be allowed to be? can their articles go as in-depth as an attack of a boss, will they be limited one article with everything about the game inside, or a mid-point?
 * 26) We currently do not allow for articles about an attack, attacks should go on an article of the boss specifically. We will look to the canon NIWA wikis for how granular our content should be. Pikmin Fanon also has an existing granularity that can be a basis.
 * 27) what are the different needs of each franchise's fan content? most franchise fanbases will make fan-made enemies, playable characters, levels, and games, but is there any fan content that will have an outlier to this list?
 * 28) Fan fictions would be an outlier - but there could be pages dedicated to that. Pikmin Fanon already does this.
 * 29) what policies will we have for real content vs. imaginary?
 * 30) We will link to NIWA canon wikis to show canon content. We will have a very minimal article on these canon contents, and sections about the different depictions in fan games
 * 31) what about rom hacks?
 * 32) Yes, those could be their own category
 * 33) should canon content be allowed?
 * 34) Yes, but in an original, minimal way that links to the canon NIWA wiki
 * 35) what about fan-made DLC, updates, or events?
 * 36) Same as rom hacks
 * 37) if they're all one wiki, will different franchise's pages be styled different?
 * 38) The skin would change depending on the namespace of the specific franchise
 * 39) if it becomes a family, what are the requirements for a member to join?
 * 40) That is to be determined
 * 41) if it becomes a family, will other fanbases want to go through the trouble of figuring out a host, negotiate prices, etc.?
 * 42) Grifkuba would host all of this, as they seem to be on board.
 * 43) is it feasible to restructure Pikmin Fanon such that fans from all franchises won't feel an inbalance? this includes templates, site style, etc.
 * 44) We will attempt to do this, but it won't be too necessary as Pikmin Fanon and Nintendo Fanon will be separate.
 * 45) are there any other wikis, like on wikia, that are already living a happy fanon life? if so, would they want to join?
 * 46) There probably are, and might want to join. This can be discussed.

Here's some of the answers I provided to Espyo's questions.

But here is the backbone of the idea:

Have a single domain with a landing page, (i.e. nintendofanon.com) Have multiple wikis as subdomains, (i.e. mario.nintendofanon.com, zelda.nintendofanon.com, etc)

Have user accounts and user groups synced across wikis, however having a NFWN Staff group as global admins/bureaucrats (this means there would be local admins and global admins)

Have a general Nintendo Fanon wiki that starts out as every franchise's fanon, separated by namespaces.

Develop one Fanon Wiki at a time, in the order that the fanon content on Nintendo Fanon wiki grows enough to justify migrating the namespace to its own wiki.

This is the general plan as of now. I did get confirmation from Fumple that we can sync user accounts across different wikis, and that Grifkuba will host us for this idea. Even though Fantendo already exists, we could start a new community that differs in many ways from Fantendo, on an independent wiki. I'd like your feedback on how this should all work out. Thanks for the input! 18:39, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

I was also told a helpful order of operations in planning and launching the new Nintendo Fanon Wiki, as well as the other Fanon Wikis once they are ready:


 * 1) Make a post on some forums (Done!)
 * 2) Gather consensus on how the wiki will run (Currently doing)
 * 3) Gather supporting members (so, people who will actually put in effort and not just say they will help, but leave you dry) and partners
 * 4) Pick a name (Nintendo Fanon Wiki? nintendofanon.com?)
 * 5) Get approval for set up from <@Fumple> (He said it was okay)
 * 6) Fumple sets up the wiki
 * 7) Import commonly used templates, like licenses.
 * 8) Work on wiki until it is ready for a reveal.

This is a good idea, as we should plan things out first and get our ducks in a row before launching the wiki. We need supporters first, as well as an audience. We should agree on the planning side of things first before spreading the word and scouting for supporters, but I think all of this is a good starting point. 18:56, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

Discord Server
We now have an official discord server for the Nintendo Fanon Network! Join up and see our progress, and help out if you'd like! Thanks! 16:53, 22 July 2021 (UTC)